I don't see the difference....

"themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles" (themanwithsauce)
05/14/2014 at 16:11 • Filed to: Car Culture

I'm fed up with all the whining and bitching about the idiots of modern car culture. Yes, people do stupid shit like mount 19" wheels with stretched tires on a civic they cut the springs on. No, that isn't cool. No, I don't agree with it. No, I don't support it. BUT! How different is it from the idiot hot rodders of the 60s who would grenade their engine randomly because they built it wrong? How is it that different from the people who used to put strobe lights and waterbeds in their vans or wagons and catch their shag carpets on fire because they did the install while tripping balls (my dad set his vega wagon on fire because he wired his stereo up while drunk or something.....he won't tell me the story again)? How is that different from the idiots who made crappy lowriders and scraped their rear bumpers while moving until (inevitably) either their hydraulics broke or something important fell off because they didn't set their car up properly to do that? How are "stance culture" idiots any different?

I'll tell you how - we can instantly share and shame the idiots now so instead of just hearing about the local dumbass you can hear about all of them, all at once, everyday. That's the only difference. Stop spewing the BS that car culture is ruined because some mouthbreather in chicago decided mom's old Golf needs the rear window stickerbombed to the point where he can't see out of it. There have been, and always will be, absolute dumbasses in car culture. This is nothing new.

I probably see at least one or two cleanly lowered and modified cars daily in my area. However, I do sometimes see guys like the one below and I shake my head too. Because this level of idiocy isn't new or unique in the car world. We just never had the means to share it and spread it with any degree of regularity. It is the norm nowadays to whip out a phone for a picture to share everywhere.

To clarify, THIS IS NOT HOW YOU DO SHIT! The tire is horrifically stretched, the fenders were rolled with what I assume was a pipe, and the toe in means that tire is constantly experiencing some wicked lateral force in a straight line. I know for a fact that thing rides like it looks - absolute shit because he didn't care to take the time or money to do it right.

But that doesn't mean that everything has gone to hell just because he's probably going to have a blowout on the freeway and crash into a ditch. You know what will kill car culture for good? Constantly whining and screaming and acting like your own tastes are "pure and true and right" or whatever you use to describe it.

So, can we pleeeeeeeeease stop all these whine posts about dumbasses who touch cars? Feel free to make a shame post but let's put a stop to these rants, I see at least one a day (more if I read comments on articles). It's pointless since you're not likely to do anything about it by bitching from behind your keyboard. Get out there and educate people on how to do it right if you want to try and change things. Hell, that was what I did with my last car. I bought a cheap car and began documenting my progress on a car forum where......well yeah some of the guys doing mods are dumbasses. I showed people how to do it on a budget and explained why I made the decisions that I did (free advice - if you don't want to upgrade your brakes or mess around too much with the suspension, keep your total tire/wheel diameter and width stock. When you deviate from that overall size, you get in trouble, fast.) When I had questions, I asked others and saw their own projects as well. When we made mistakes or had unexpected success, we all improved our skills and our cars were better off for it. I learned a lot and grew as both an enthusiast and a person as I met people outside my usual circle and had some.....interesting conversations with enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts alike.

Again, you're not going to make a fad go away by shaking your cane at them and yelling 'get off my lawn'. But maybe you can show the right way to do things and perhaps share some of your own preferences and lessons to make that scene.....BETTER! It's a stunning concept, I know, and I'll give you a minute to pick our jaw up off the ground. But I'm already seeing some of this in action. I'm seeing fewer cut springs and more airbag setups. I'm seeing less camber and more sidewall for cars on coilovers. I know this is a result of people who came from outside the original "scene" and brought in their own ideas and knowledge. That is how car culture grows and evolves and will remain strong forever. So please, let's have more of that type of posts.

DISCUSSION (20)

ColoradoTaco > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
05/14/2014 at 16:16

slowclap. I could not have typed it better myself.

The oppo anti-stance elitist BS was old two years ago. We get it by now

Party-vi > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
05/14/2014 at 16:17

I agree, but calling them dumbasses probably isn't the best way to start.

CalzoneGolem > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
05/14/2014 at 16:17

But they said the same things about the last thing and they'll say the same thing about the next thing.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Party-vi
05/14/2014 at 16:20

Well by "dumbass" I'm referring to people who do repairs and modifications incorrectly. I guess sometimes ignorance is to blame but I have no sympathy for people like the tire stretcher I posted and I don't have any for guys like the mustang "tuner" who decided to flush his crankcase with water while the engine was running. At some point, you have to assume someone attempting these things should know the basic "for all that is holy, DON'T DO THIS" list of things not to do.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > CalzoneGolem
05/14/2014 at 16:22

All we can do is use the power of inter-connectivity to try and fix it instead of posting constant bitching. I don't think it's likely to happen, but I'll do my part as best I can.

CalzoneGolem > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
05/14/2014 at 16:22

By bitching about the bitching?

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > ColoradoTaco
05/14/2014 at 16:23

Yep. I myself owned a shaggin-wagon conversion van, a mid 90s FWD GM coupe with an automatic that I stripped out, a buick riviera street drag/cruiser car, an Audi 200 20v to restore into a rally car, my "stanced" MkIII jetta covered in beer labels, and now a brand new Fiesta ST. I've seen quite a few different people and heard quite a few opinions in the past 5 years.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > CalzoneGolem
05/14/2014 at 16:25

No, giving suggestions and trying to help people understand and learn from each other instead of making it an "us against them" thing.

Party-vi > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
05/14/2014 at 16:25

I believe the tire stretch was done correctly to attain what is called "poke". Also the Mustang thread is more than likely a joke; if not it was hilarious anyway.

Imirrelephant > Party-vi
05/14/2014 at 16:26

Red Foreman would disagree with you, but I do not.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Party-vi
05/14/2014 at 16:27

The picture didn't do it justice. It looked good from about 15 feet out but that bead is not going to hold much longer. The wear was inconsistent and the fender wasn't rolled properly so a sharp bump or pothole could cut the tire or damage the wheel.

Party-vi > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
05/14/2014 at 16:30

Oh I know - the roll looks like shit and one good pothole will unseat the bead from the wheel.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
05/14/2014 at 16:35

Any car that is unsafe for use on public roads should be called out for what it is. This includes bro trucks, lifted so that their bumpers would land in the back of a person's head in a collision, and any "normal" car that has not maintained in a way to keep it safe for use at speed.

"just because he's probably going to have a blowout on the freeway and crash into a ditch" - what if he has a blowout on the freeway and crashes into my wife's car and my kids are injured, or die?

If these cars are modified in a way that is road-worthy, I have no issue with it, as it's just a show of personal style. Many of these cars are modified in a way that makes them a danger for anyone else on the road around them, and that's unacceptable.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
05/14/2014 at 16:55

Please read everything before commenting. Yes, he's a dumbass. No, he does not herald the end of car culture. That's all I meant by the next line. I even say, later on in the post, by all means shame those who do it wrong. Like the lift kit pickups with stock brakes and ruined pitman arms who now can't drive their truck......anywhere (let alone on the dirt). Or like the people who boost a turbo 4 to 500hp and think that their car shaking like it's having a seizure is acceptable or healthy. I don't see many of the abysmal stanced cars on the street, only in photos shared online. And of course we're going to share the worst of the worst. On the street I see way more road hazards from other cultures of enthusiasts but that doesn't mean that culture is all worthless.

I'd also like to point out the very nature of the stance scene is to be noticed and share pictures and whatnot. So naturally, there are more photos taken of those cars and more people want their car to get a slice of that attention. I think that makes people think "stance" is more prevalent than it is.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Party-vi
05/14/2014 at 16:56

It's Michigan, it's only a matter of time......And yes, I hope that mustang thread was a joke but considering what else that guy asked about and what he did when he jumped into tuning GTPs, either it is just a total troll account or he needs to take the bus.

Frank Grimes > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
05/14/2014 at 17:13

You are defending people who take a STI and make it handle like crap and ride like worse than crap and ruin all its sportiness byt make sure the stretched tires have like 1" of contact patch on the road....I dont think people who do this deserve any respect. And I think its different than a shag carpet van or a lowrider. And did you really compare a guy who builds an engine but makes a mistake to dorks who take a car make it rusty and lower it?

Blondude > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
05/14/2014 at 17:28

I'm not sure what else to say...

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!!

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Frank Grimes
05/14/2014 at 17:34

No, I'm not doing any of that. You jumped to a conclusion and didn't read everything. Yes some people can make their car a road hazard via camber and no wheel travel and whatnot. But an engine builder or tuner who "makes a mistake" due to his own hardheadedness and has his car blow up in traffic is just like the guy who is in danger of cutting a tire on his fender. At the end of the day, your pursuit of your hobby can render your car less reliable and safe than it was to begin with. There is no argument there. And furthermore, since we now live in the age of sharing and ricers and stancenation is the fad right now, that's what gets shared everywhere so it *seems* to be incredibly common yet besides california and a handful of pockets here and there, that isn't the majority of car enthusiasts.

Old-Busted-Hotness > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
05/15/2014 at 06:40

Here's the difference: The stance boys are doing this shit on purpose, even though they know it's detrimental to handling and safety. There is no valid reason to drive on a tire that's not properly seated. There is no valid reason for 20 degrees of negative camber.

Wanna go back in time? There's a valid reason for jacking up the rear end of a muscle car to fit wider tires (tubs and narrowed rear ends hadn't been invented yet). There's a valid reason for jalopies with no fenders (weight and drag reduction). If you wanna talk pure style modifications, the only objection that vaguely makes sense is chopped tops which ruin outward visibility.

You're comparing conscious decisions with mistakes.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Old-Busted-Hotness
05/15/2014 at 08:19

And you think running an ultra-aggressive cam on a big block engine that can't keep itself cool is fine for a daily driving car? I know at least one person on here daily drives a civic or miata where they removed the airbag wheel for something aftermarket without one. Hell running an unpadded cage with no airbag in a street car will probably end in a wicked head injury when you aren't wearing a helmet. Or the people who pull an ABS fuse for whatever reason. Maybe you're good enough on a track to where you can beat an ABS system. But I highly doubt you're going to be better off in a panic situation without ABS on a car with a braking system designed for it.

Now I know what you're about to tell me - those guys are the stupid exceptions for thinking "Because racecar" is a vaalid reason to drive an unsafe car. You're correct. Guess what? Having built my own car and gone to shows heavily based on stance, you don't see the cambermobiles and stretched tires anymore. Let me take a quote from my post here - "I'm seeing fewer cut springs and more airbag setups. I'm seeing less camber and more sidewall for cars on coilovers." people found out real fast that a lot of those photoshoots were done on cars that were setup on the set for the ridiculous camber and had the poked wheel/tire combo just for the shot. Maybe it's a honda thing but at the euro show I went to I don't think I saw anything too extreme on static struts/springs or coilovers. I know a few BMWs and VWs were lowered on their coilovers an extra half inch or inch for the show but I see a few of them driving around GR. They have a show setup and a daily setup. So what you complain about isn't done anymore. We just live in the age where we can share instantly with everyone so you just think that's what people actually like to drive everyday.